Advice

Hotsauce · Joined: Dec 17, 2003 Posts: 5 Location: USA

Hey All,

I'm new to the field of "civilian" aviation, I've spent the last 17 years in Army aviation, mainly fixing helos.
I'm still in in the military, but I've started doing side work at a local FBO. I've learned real quickly about the differences between military and civilian aviation maintenance, not necessarily in the wrench turning aspect, but in the documentation of maintenance. I did my first annual on a Piper Warrior, but the guy I work for seems to have his way of doing his paperwork, I haven't signed anything yet, that was a week ago. My purpose for posting to this forum is to seek some advice from you guys who have been in the civilian market for awhile and feel my pain. Also to glean anything that will be helpful for a military maintenance guy transitioning into the civilian aviation, recommended reading would be helpful.

planedoctor · Joined: Oct 08, 2002 Posts: 306

Hum

where to begin...Welcome to the site.

I could certainly understand the shock you have probably gotten in the was paperwork is handled in the military vs. non-military.

As far a recommended reading I cannot think of anything at the moment.

The way I see it there is a couple ways paperwork is handled. The FAA way and the way it generally gets handled.

We all know your supposed to follow the FAR's to the letter, we all know following stuff by the book takes a hell of a lot longer to get the work done.

Proper documentation is ALWAYS KEY! The way I think about it is if there is another problem with some system you just fixed, wouldn't you like to know what the last guy did to it?

Getting the job done in a Airworthy and timely manor is the tough one.

I've ran out of time right now, but will throw some more BS

at this a little later.
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Mark · Joined: Nov 21, 2003 Posts: 17 Location: USA

Obviously, Hotsauce is not licensed to work on civilian registered, type certificated aircraft, except under close supervision of someone who is properly authorized.

I suggest that Hotsauce review the law at http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/cfrhtml_00/Title_14/14tab_00.html
specifically Part 43, and if he's serious about getting into civilian aircraft maintenance, also read Part 65 and the requirements to obtain an Airframe & Powerplant mechanic license.
_________________
Mark E.J. Fay

Hotsauce · Joined: Dec 17, 2003 Posts: 5 Location: USA

Mark,

My first inclination is to tell you to @#$%off! to the first part of your comment however that wouldn't be appropriate. I have held my certifcate for the last 7 years, and didn't go to Slappy's 1-week certification course to get it either, it took the same amount of energy and hard work that you and many other dedicated A&P's have invested in order to get it. I am familiar with FAR 43, 65, and 91 just to name a few. My purpose for posting to a forum such as this is because I wanted mature, professional advice about a situation that is probably is the norm for those who have been at it for a while, but it is certainly is not for me where I come from. Yes the FAR's say this and that, but as the previous post indicated, what goes on in the "real-world" is more true-to life than what the rules say. Yes the military overdoes it with the paperwork, but it does have its system of checks and balances. The military way is what I know best, I'm just trying to adapt to the civilian way. So far evey accident investigation that I've seen or heard about, both military and civilian, started with a look at the maintenance of the aircraft. I want the CYA info, the real-world stuff, not assumptions about my experience. I don't know if you have crossed paths with individuals such as myself and if so what your impressions were, but if you have, keep this in mind, transitioning from military life to civilian life is not that easy, there's a lot to get used to. Help add to the ranks of quality A&P's not tearing it down with your prefaced comments.

With that said, thanks for the link, I'll look into it.

Regards,

James Holloman
"Hotsauce"

Guest

James,

I apologize for any offense taken at my comments. No offense was intended. My comments were based on your seemingly lack of understanding of the 14CFR (aka FARs) per your comments.

If I cared nothing for the quality of A&Ps, I would not have commented at all.

Part of the problem with "real world" and, let's say the "theoretical world," of the law is the perception that there is a difference. The law, i.e. the U.S. Federal Aviation Regulations or FARs are in reality very well written, i.e., clear and concise. The disconnect occurs in the (incorrect) belief that the FARs are interpretive.

Design engineers, manufacturing technicians, and post delivery personnel all must ensure that the aircraft they design or build or maintain are airworthy.

There is a clear and direct path from the original certificate of airworthiness to ensuring the continuing airworthiness of the aircraft, no matter how many flight hours, cycles, or years have passed.

As an A&P you may sign off, for return to service, 100 hour inspections, but not annual inspections. FAR Part 43 provides the detail of who can return certain maintenance/inspections to service, and the recordkeeping requirements.

Please let me know if I've misinterpreted your conerns.

Mark

Hotsauce · Joined: Dec 17, 2003 Posts: 5 Location: USA

Mark,

I certainly accept your apology and I hope you will accept mine for getting on the defensive. Prior to responding to your post, I had just read the reply to OriginalSin's post "I'm moving up" and then read mine, so I guess I was venting more my frustration in that regard.

I did follow the link you recommended and it helped. I also purchased a copy of the 04 FARAMT and App. 1 had some good examples of common maintenance entries as well as other paperwork.

Thank you for your input.

Regards,

Hotsauce

Mark · Joined: Nov 21, 2003 Posts: 17 Location: USA

James/Hotsauce,

No apology is needed as no offense was taken. It has been a lesson for me. I will endeavor to be less blunt and more diplomatic in my postings in the future.

If there is any further, constructive, input I can provide, please do not hesitate to let me know.

At the risk of appearing self-promoting, I invite you to read about the meaning of airworthiness at www.Airworthy.US

Regards,
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Mark E.J. Fay

planedoctor · Joined: Oct 08, 2002 Posts: 306

Hey Hotsauce,

Did you have anything in examples or areas of concern you want to discuss?

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Hotsauce · Joined: Dec 17, 2003 Posts: 5 Location: USA

Hey Doc,

I guess my main concern was the documentation issue, but my anxiety has been quelled by reading through the AMT I just bought and looking at the FAA website.

The example in the AMT seemed to provide the clarification I was looking for.

Right now I'm in the process of building a good knowledge base. I've managed to acquire the maintenance manual for the aircraft model I'm working on. I'm going over the annual inspection checklist for starters. I've also hooked up with a former "Airline" guy who was glad to take me under his wing.

I can't say I have any particular topic that I can think of, but I'm sure whatever topics you normally would discuss will be a benefit to me.

Regards,

Hotsauce

planedoctor · Joined: Oct 08, 2002 Posts: 306

Well if you think of something drop it here.

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