A&P Expiration

David

I am an A&P with a period of 9 consecutive, prior years experience, but have not worked in aviation for the last 10 years.

I do not understand what (a) of the following 65.83 means. Can you please expand upon that?

The way that I understand 65.83 is that as per (b) since I have previously served as a mechanic for a 6 month period (9 consecutive years, in my case) that my A&P should be valid for the rest of my life regardless if I have not worked in aviation for the past 24 months, (or even 10 years in my case). Is my assumtion correct?

§65.83 Recent experience requirements.
A certificated mechanic may not exercise the privileges of his certificate and rating unless, within the preceding 24 months --
(a) The Administrator has found that he is able to do that work; or
(b) He has, for at least 6 months --
(1) Served as a mechanic under his certificate and rating;
(2) Technically supervised other mechanics;
(3) Supervised, in an executive capacity, the maintenance or alteration of aircraft; or
(4) Been engaged in any combination of paragraph (b) (1), (2), or (3) of this section.

planedoctor · Joined: Oct 08, 2002 Posts: 306

Sorry for the delay in your response. I had my back up hard drive die and was really bumming over my data loss.

I think you have it correct.
Since you DID work for over 6 months using your license you will be OK. If you want to be insured contact the local FISDO.

Worse case is you have to use (a) The Administrator has found that he is able to do that work.
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David · Joined: Apr 17, 2006 Posts: 19 Location: USA

OK. I finally got through to the local FAA here in my area. The deal is the following:

Scenario (A):
If someone goes out and gets their A&P, and then does not work as an A&P for at least 6 months within the following 24 months immediately after getting it, then: According to FAR 65.83, the A&P license is no longer valid; unless the administrator (FAA) has found that he is able to do that work.

However, as planedoctor stated in an earlier message, there are no FAA police that are monotoring the work experience of A&P mechanics.

If an A&P is in this situation, and wants the administrator to find them able to do the work of an A&P: All they need to do is send $2.00 and an application, to the FAA and claim that they have lost their A&P certificate. Since there are no A&P police that are monitoring work experience, a new certificate will be issued, and the A&P mechanic will be found, by the administrator, able to do the work of an A&P.

Scenario (B)
If an A&P, like myself, has not worked in aviation for over 24 months (10 years in my case) but has at least 6 months of the following experience:

(1) Served as a mechanic under his certificate and rating;
(2) Technically supervised other mechanics;
(3) Supervised, in an executive capacity, the maintenance or alteration of aircraft; or
(4) Been engaged in any combination of paragraph (b) (1), (2), or (3) of this section.
Then: the A&P certificate is valid for the life of the mechanic.

Anyway, that is what I have found out for myself. I am excited to be going back to work as an A&P. For the last 10 years I have been working in sales and tech support for a large industrial laser company (laser welding). My sales and tech support job has paid very well (better than A&P). I can no longer travel the way my sales job demands. Therefore, I am falling back on my A&P experience (King Air / PT-6) (Airline MD-80 / B-737 / BAE-146) (Engine Shop JT-8). I will be working a low stress mechanics job (lower stress than sales) while attending night classes at Embry Riddle University (San Diego) with a goal of a BA in Professional Aeronautics. I am hoping that a bachelors degree will award me with a position in aviation that compensates me closer to what I have become used to making in sales.

I transferred all my junior college credits, prior military experience credits, and A&P certificate credits over to my degree program at Embry Riddle. For anyone interested an A&P is worth 36 credits in a 120 credit bachelore degree program. I hope that some of this info is helpful to someone.

Be safe, and keep em flyin.
David

heli mech

Hold on...

For the administrator to find you able to do the work, you have to get a certificate issued, not replaced.

The "able to do the work" phrase usually relates to you passing all the written tests, practical tests, and then getting a certificate issued by an FAA Inspector, or DME.

The replacement certificate does not indicate the administrator has found you are able to do the work. This action is only replaces your certificate.

Hence the definition of the word..."replacement"

Heli Mech

You left out some important words in your following statement...

Scenario (B)
If an A&P, like myself, has not worked in aviation for over 24 months (10 years in my case) but has at least 6 months of the following experience:

The words you need to look at closely from the rule are:

within the preceding 24 months --

So, by the definition of the rule, unless you have done the listed items (like 6 months experience) within the last 24 months, or the administrator has found you able to do the work, your certificate is not valid. You need to comply with one of the listed requirements for 6 months before you exercise the privileges of your certificate.

And the FAA does show up from time to time to look at these issues... like when the pilot lands gear up and says "the gear collapsed. I really had the gear handle down"

The way this is usually dealt with is to work with some mechanics on aircraft who are current, where they are returning the aircraft to service. After 6 months, then you can sign off work. If you have done that type of work before....

David · Joined: Apr 17, 2006 Posts: 19 Location: USA

Hello Heli Mech, and others;
I have not replied because I have been going through many interviews and on the search for a job. However, I see your point and I stand corrected. I did manage to land a job though, and I am extremely grateful to have gotten it. I believe that a large part of why I got the job is because I worked at the same place 10 years ago when I left aviation. I believe that knowing someone definately helped. I might add (In a humble tone) that I hope my past work performance had something to do with it as well.

I will say this though. I went to a few other interviews while on my A&P job search. The fact that I was out of aviation for 10 years did not seem to matter. I was offered a position at each interview that I went. There could be a couple reasons for this, #1: I have continued working in technical type work for the past 10 years, #2: I think that it is largely because there is alot of work available right now and, perhaps not enough A&Ps to fill the positions (knock on wood) or better yet (Thank You, God).

When I made my original decision to try getting back into aviation, I was not very hopeful of having success. However, once I got into the job market, I was pleasantly suprised at how many positions where available. I am curious, and would like to hear from others about what your feeling, or experience is regarding the state of the aviation mechanic job market right now.

Well I'm happy to report that I found work as an A&P. I would love to fill everyone in on all the details as to where, for whom, and what kind of aircraft, but I can't, nor do I think it would be wise.

Regards to all
David

Jack Neubauer A&P

David, look back to FAR 65.15 (a), duration of certificates.

"Except for repairman certificates, a certificate or rating issued under this part is effective until it is surrendered, suspended, or revoked."

Your license is good until you give it up, get it taken, or have it suspended. What 65.83 is saying is that if you are out of the work force as a practicing A&P mechanic for more than 6 months in the past 24 months, in order to practice your privileges as an A&P, you must demonstrate to the Administrator that you are still wanting to practice as an A&P. In order to do this, you must perform ANY aspect that an A&P mechanic rating privileges you to do, and you must perform that work in the presence of the Administrator, or working under an A&P mechanic (as long as the work performed is not an inspection).

That's a bunch of jargon, what it's saying is if you have another A&P mechanic watch you do anything to an aircraft, you are then considered an active A&P mechanic, and congrats, you are back in the field.

jetmech0738

I just talked to my local FSDO office. If you have a A&P certificate and you do not use it for 24 consecutive months, you must work under another A&P for at least 6 months before you can sign anything off! No matter how much previous experience you have. Also ,where it says "the administrator has found you able to do that work" the FSDO said that usually involves taking the oral and practical again, and they can't ever remember anybody doing that again. Also they said the only way you will ever be in violation of the FAR65.83, is if there is an accident and you are investigated.

HerkPFE · Joined: Jan 17, 2008 Posts: 10 Location: USA

Bottom line, unless you are going out on your own and turning wrenches in the GA world..you are always going to be working under the supervision of somebody.

The other FAR that get everyone is...

Sec. 65.81

General privileges and limitations.

(a) A certificated mechanic may perform or supervise the maintenance, preventive maintenance or alteration of an aircraft or appliance, or a part thereof, for which he is rated (but excluding major repairs to, and major alterations of, propellers, and any repair to, or alteration of, instruments), and may perform additional duties in accordance with §§65.85, 65.87, and 65.95. However, he may not supervise the maintenance, preventive maintenance, or alteration of, or approve and return to service, any aircraft or appliance, or part thereof, for which he is rated unless he has satisfactorily performed the work concerned at an earlier date. If he has not so performed that work at an earlier date, he may show his ability to do it by performing it to the satisfaction of the Administrator or under the direct supervision of a certificated and appropriately rated mechanic, or a certificated repairman, who has had previous experience in the specific operation concerned.

And the only time I have seen either one of these become a fact was when there was an accident or inflight turn back.

So bottom line, if you take the FAR's verbatim you need to (within the last 6 months) exercise the privileges of your certificate and only do work that you have experience or have been trained on.

[/u]
_________________
Best Regards,
Greg Pierce
www.pierceaviationservices.com

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