AMFA

ual_tech · Joined: Jan 29, 2003 Posts: 22 Location: USA

BLA BLA BLA From The-Mechanic UAL_TECH

ual_tech · Joined: Jan 29, 2003 Posts: 22 Location: USA

United Machinists Doubt Labor Pact
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/030307/united_airlines_1.html

The Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association filed a petition Thursday with the National Mediation Board seeking to represent United's mechanics and related employees -- an action IAM officials said threatens to derail negotiations the same way an earlier bid did in 2000.

"AMFA's intrusion at this critical stage introduces potentially fatal distraction into an already precarious situation," said Robert Roach Jr., general vice president for the IAM. "They have placed the futures of the very employees that they propose to represent in dire jeopardy."
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ROTFLMAO!!!

UAL_TECH

planedoctor · Joined: Oct 08, 2002 Posts: 306

Welcome aboard UAL_TECH,

I just wanted to give a few thoughts about my take on things concerning AMFA and UAL.

I would first like to mention I don't have first hand knowledge of the going on's at UAL or AMFA for that matter, but wanted to say a few words.

A while back there was a discussion about unions in general. One of the things that was brought out was that the union in none more then the membership. If the membership was tough and involved then the union was also.

At CAL there was a lot of talk about switching unions. There still could be, but switching the changing your name doesn't make you a different person.

It's my opinion that UAL has a very unified shop. I was amazed at the way you guys stood up for your rightfully earned money. I was envious of the unity.

Now I would really love to see into the future as SWA has recently joined AMFA and see how it's going with them.

Keep in mind the times are changing BIG-TIME in the industry. We all know MAJOR changes must be made in order for the industry to survive.

Is the answer clear?.....NOPE..Muddy as hell. The key to survival in flexibility. We will never survive unless the CEO's get together and find a way to keep the industry from throwing money down the drain.

It's my opinion UAL Tech's would hurt themselves even more in attempting to change sides during this difficult time.

Hang in there and let the current leaders hash it out. When the dust clears and UAL is breathing ok again then look at the situation and make the move.
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ual_tech · Joined: Jan 29, 2003 Posts: 22 Location: USA

planedoctor,

Thank you for your observation, and insight.

Regardless as to if I think that this is a 'good' time for an AMFA switch or not is now a moot point.
It is currently in play as we speak.

At this ‘apex’ we have to ‘pick one’.

Current union leadership

has not been very effective in meeting the needs of the membership. If they had, then this issue would have never came up to begin with.

I have read through the discussions on this BB regarding unions, and have enjoyed the intellectual points/counter points. However, theory, and application theologies may differ (where the rubber meets the road).

Unions are a failure of management!!!

Treat your employees in fairness, dignity, mutual respect, and you will never need a union.
But, that is not where we are.

Thanks for the site!
Take Care,

UAL_TECH

aircraft_artificer · Joined: Mar 07, 2003 Posts: 4 Location: USA

There are in fact many argueing whether or not this is a good time for AMFA to file. The fact remains also, when is a good time?

If there is a contract in place then everybody is happy and no need to change,or at least enough to not be able to call for a change. During negotiations is not the right time, because it wait ans see what we get. The BK filing and most of what goes with it will be done before an election can take place anyways. Once that is done it would be good to have a real mech union in place. If the LCC comes in with no union then that will last about ten minutes before one comes there. The IAM is currently trying to do what was done at US Airways whereas they represent the regional airlines that was set up as it was being built. How they can do this with out having a vote is beyond me but they did it. There is a definate need for mechs to change their representation industry wide but there is also a need for them to get off their collective apathetic asses and voice their concerns

unionist · Joined: Jan 29, 2003 Posts: 9 Location: USA

I can not urge you and your counter parts at United to stop this AMFA push with a strong vote for the IAM. I understand your fustration with the union that is in place but the members have the power to change the way they do business. How many people go to the meetings? How many people are willing to put the time in and campaign and get elected to office? How many people are involed with their locals? I ask that you do some heavy looking into this Association called AMFA that is right they are not a Union but an association. Take the time to look into how they have agreed to baseball arbitration at Alaska Air, how they promised Southwest their own locals in all stations and now MCO and TPA has a local in Tenneese. They have made all kinds of promises that they can not keep. They do not have the money to go to Arbitrations. They ask the members for extra donations if something has to go to arbitration. They just raised the Dues for a work group that had issues that need to go to arbitration. There are internal problems with the international and one of its locals because they are making under the table deals with NWA. Ask your self why they raid other Unions after their contracts are signed and not before the ratification date. They can not afford to negotiate, and are not capable of closeing the deals. I worries me that so many people are only worried about themselves these days and not the group. Remind as many people that you can about the good that your union or any union for that matter has done for them during their time with the company they work for. I will bet that it out weighs the bad. Think of the jobs that it has saved, the money it has gotten for you. I hope you do not htink that the Company just rolled over and gave it up. I guess my message is THINK before you move.

aircraft_artificer · Joined: Mar 07, 2003 Posts: 4 Location: USA

"Unionist" I am not really sure how to reply, but I will start with a point by point.
Many people in the IAM loacal that I was in TRIED desperately to change the way they do business. Some were thrown out of meetings and once had the police called on them to remove them from a meeting. Many of the same including myself ran for offices. Though they won the District refused what they asked for and instead listened to the IAM cronies, some were not allowed to hold office. This beratement of the members goes all the way to Buffenbarger that called everyone at the station a group of "miscreants" after some voiced their concerns.
As far as the rest of your post remember that the MEMBERSHIP decided for the Alaska, the MEMBERSHIP decided the dues increase the MEMBERSHIP is seeing what is going on with NWA the MEMBERSHIP numbers decide what locals are where per the constitution of AMFA. Not from what you say a so called "promise". I remember my "promise" of FULL RETRO though.

I remeber my "promise" that none would be laid off unless all out sourced work was brought in house first.

I remember the "promise" that if I got into another arguement with one of the IAM grievance committeemans "boy" he would use everything he could to get me fired.

I wonder if you are even aware of how many mechanics are still FIRED for doing thier job yet they and the ones that have managed to get their jobs back have ALL HAD TO GET AN OUTSIDE LAWYER because the IAM would not give them one AND could not defend them in the grievance process.

Now you talk about AMFA and how they "raid" other unions AFTER the the contracts are signed,???,

You really need to work on this statement, maybe with your mind not your mouth first.

AMFA was called every name in the book for "raiding" UAL , "DURING" contract talks with United in 2001. They caused a delay in negotiations etc etc. Must have forgotten that huh. Now as for "raiding "after a contract has been signed. First in 2001 they raid during talks, now they raid after contracts are signed .SO EXACTLY WHEN ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO FILE?

Remember this as well, a card drive goes until it reaches the 60% mark before AMFA will file. No 60% NO FILE. These are the cards signed by the MEMBERSHIP to change a union. 50% +1 is all that is required by the NMB, and at how many carriers, regional,national, or major has AMFA been filed against much less VOTED OUT YET?

You might want to think about the fact is if AMFA was so bad they would have been voted out by now.

So as you say think about . You can bet myself and at least 60% of my peers including over 3500 INVOLUNTARILY laid off people have thought about it.

The IAM must go they are the weakest link for the profession of aviation maintenance

unionist · Joined: Jan 29, 2003 Posts: 9 Location: USA

"aircraft_artificer" You make SOME good points. I should have made it clearer that I am NOT a member of the IAM Union but the Teamsters. While the Teamsters do have some issues that I do not agree with, I have made it very clear to them what my position is on these topics and can tell you that I have NEVER been threatened with my job or membership. If the things you are saying about the IAM are true then you may have a valid bitch. As far as AMFA goes they did not take a membership vote for any of the increases, baseball arbitration, where locals would be, those were decisions that as far as I was told were just done by the national, with no recorse from the membership. I will not get into an argument about which union is better but please keep in mind that AMFA runs from a P.O. Box and web site not an office. Also take a look into what Law Firm they are represented by. One that has historicaly represented Corporations. I have in the past headed up campaigns with AMFA before we seaked out the Teamsters and was not very impressed with the leadership their. They kept asking for money to even print flyers. The teamsters spent over 2 million dollars even before 1 dollar of dues money was collected. I will tell you this , we did not ask for help from the IAM because of the things you speek of and felt that the reresentation was not top notch. I would not want to be in your situation at this time and sympatize with your situation.
Please do not take any of this the wrong way, this is my oppion only and can tell you from experience that the Teamsters, though not perfect, have for the most part performed well and in the best interest of the members. Their are those in the organization that I would like to see go, and am actively working on that, but for now I can and will make my oppion known. I hope that they never pull what the IAM has pulled on you and the members their because I do not know what I would do.

ual_tech · Joined: Jan 29, 2003 Posts: 22 Location: USA

Unionist,
You have several valid points that must be considered by everyone involved in this decision of IAM –vs- AMFA. We all must weigh the facts and make our best effort to form a researched; and fact based decision. Unfortunately, this may not be the case. Many people will make a decision based on anger of their personal situation, mistrust of the present representation, and/or apprehension that nothing will change. Some people are so weary of the stress that is imposed on them (real and perceived) that they will make a decision to just ‘GET IT OVER WITH’, without considering the ramifications.

But that is who we are, ‘PEOPLE’.

Having said that, I will try to answer your query in a ‘generalization’, not as a representative of my peers, but in the way as “I” ‘IMHO’ perceive it.

In SFO, the workforce is spread over hundreds of miles from their home. Home prices in the bay area are prohibitive to allow people to live close to their work and still maintain ‘family’ life that they are working for. These people sacrifice their commute and daily travel 1-2, sometimes 3 hours each way so that their family may have an opportunity to live in a humble house, in a safe neighborhood. This forces them to join ‘car pools’, ‘van pools’, or commuter bussing. These external forces deter their freedom of attendance to local union meetings.

For those who do sacrifice their time to attend meetings, the structure of the experience is painful at best. (If you have been to one, you know what I mean.) The few that have important relevant concerns are lost in the mire of rhetoric.

Typically, local (to SFO) people are elected as they are they few that meet the criteria. (If a member does not attend at least 6 meetings in a 12 month period, the member is not eligible for consideration as a candidate.)

Question is - Local to what? SFO or Tracy? How much is the ‘local’ working to involve the membership? The local has been aware of this problem for years, and has not addressed it.

Hope this helps in your understanding.

UAL_TECH

ual_tech · Joined: Jan 29, 2003 Posts: 22 Location: USA

More Reading:

'Maverick' Union Makes Bid to Win Loyalty of United Airlines Mechanics
http://www.newsalert.com/bin/story?StoryId=CpOz50aicveiTquLsteLors1vtKLptG&FQ=c%25UAL%20&Nav=qr-re-redigest&StoryTitle=Company+Digest

UAL_TECH

planedoctor · Joined: Oct 08, 2002 Posts: 306

Good article UAL_TECH

I sure feel for all U guys at UAL that are getting the BIG shaft. I dont think it will be getting better anytime soon either.

This industry really sucks more then it's Good.

_________________

ual_tech · Joined: Jan 29, 2003 Posts: 22 Location: USA

So here we are.
We (UAL AMT) have recently ratified a six year concessionary package.
Where do we go from here?
I hear 'chitter chatter' that AMFA is for line AMT's exclusively, and they do not care about the support mechanics (Dock Work/Back Shops).
I haven't found supporting information (except from the iam) in this regard.

Until I do, AMFA!

IMHO,
Take Care,

UAL_TECH

ual_tech · Joined: Jan 29, 2003 Posts: 22 Location: USA

Over 600 views and very little input/debate into this thread.

What does this tell us?

UT

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