IBT vs amfa

IBTBrother · Joined: Dec 18, 2002 Posts: 2 Location: USA

For SWA, amfa will not be the savior they are hoping for. amfa has said in meetings that if a grievance cannot be handled at the local managment level it will go to arbitration, come on guys do you really believe that when the company hears this they are going to feel fear and settle all grievances. NOT! it will only make them decline more because amfa will not take an overtime by pass, total of $450 for one mechanic to arbitration that would cost 3 - 5 thousand dollars. Along with a few other promises I don't see coming true.

cfm-7 · Joined: Dec 12, 2002 Posts: 7 Location: USA

I have been to our so-called system board before and watched the Ibt sell us down the river! The company at the local level usually don't fight us on ot bypasses. As far as any other grievances going to arbitration. I would rather take my chances with an independent arbitrator over the company leaning Ibt!

IBTBrother · Joined: Dec 18, 2002 Posts: 2 Location: USA

CFM-7 <<do you really feel that the company will continue to be so easy to settle ot grievances when they know that amfa will have to spend 3-5 thousand to get a few hundred. NOT! after a few declines, the company will control and know what amfa will and want do.

cfm-7 · Joined: Dec 12, 2002 Posts: 7 Location: USA

I don't know where you get your 3-5 thousand number for a grievance since we haven't filed any yet but I do know for a fact how much money the Ibt has cost me. I only have to get kicked in the head a few times before I learn my lesson! Why are you so scared of change? Nothing is forever. If things don't work out we can change again. If I used the same logic as a lot of these people I would either still be living at home or in the military scared to make a change! I personally am done with the corruption and lies of the Ibt. This whole thing is about a lot more than grievances. Look around you,it's about saving our profession! Truck drivers don't care about us!!!

737 · Joined: Nov 20, 2002 Posts: 43 Location: USA

The 3k-5k is an average cost for an arbitration case. If you filed a grievance you would know that it cost you nothing to file it. But, if a grievance has merits and it is pursued thru arbitration, then the costs associated with arbitration affect both the company and the union. If the company knows in advance that the union is not in a financial position to pursue a grievance up to arbitration, then the company has a clear advantage.

If you have a legitimate grievance it's not only important to file it, it's equally important for the union to accept it. Otherwise, the union could be charged with a DFR (duty of fair representaion) violation. And, I can assure you that any accredited union trains it's shop stewards to avoid those pitfalls.

cfm-7 · Joined: Dec 12, 2002 Posts: 7 Location: USA

OOOOOH ouch! I have filed my share of grievances and still have one pending now. I don't know who you work for but At Swa the number of grievances that go to arbitration are extremely small. Now if you are going to tell me that the company is much more intimidated by the Ibt than they would be of Amfa,I want some of what you are smoking! Southwest airlines luvs the teamsters and share the same bed......PERIOD! As far as the 3-5 thousand per arbitration case. I would rather spend my dues money defending mechanics than spending it on truckers strike funds and 1/3 of a city block in D.C.

737 · Joined: Nov 20, 2002 Posts: 43 Location: USA

First, my response to your earlier post was directed at your earlier statement,

cfm-7 · Joined: Dec 12, 2002 Posts: 7 Location: USA

I believe you are reading a little bit deep into what i'm saying. When I say we have'nt filed any yet that means we have'nt under AMFA so obviously you are going by second hand information and or rumor. The Ibt has always been at a clear disadvantage when it comes to handling a company lawyer. Gimme a break! What kind of law firm would work for the Ibt. I personally would feel better with a Harvard graduate from Amfa....PERIOD. I attended the Amfa meetings and yes they do have the resources to fight our arbitration cases. That's fact not rumor! Also the statement about the company being in bed with the Ibt is true and has been reported. If you don't feel like this is true then just ask the select few from our last negotiations. There was a few who had morals and would be glad to tell you the truth! You also seem to know a lot about how I feel about truck drivers.........WRONG! I have no ill feelings towards any truck drivers but I do not want to be classified with them either. We are technicians and should be viewed as such. I have family members who were truck drivers and they agree with me on this issue as well. Don't sell yourself short and don't be so scared of change. If it does'nt work out we can always change back. Nothing is forever. Oh and by the way most of the truck drivers that deliver the engines for Swa are'nt union. They are independents. That is at least the ones i have talked to.

737 · Joined: Nov 20, 2002 Posts: 43 Location: USA

If AMFA is the answer as you claim then you'll certainly find out during the next round of contract negotiations, if they become certified. However, change in this case is not a better choice as you'll discover. And, if I'm wrong then it will be proven in the coming years.

I believe your statement about truck drivers,

cfm-7 · Joined: Dec 12, 2002 Posts: 7 Location: USA

You teamster guys sure can twist words to your benefit. That is for sure! Amfa will not be without its problems. I won't suggest that nor will any other Amfa supporter but we are smart enough to see what has happened to us over the years. If you had a lawyer for years and years and he repeatedly would not do his job up to his ability then common sense would dictate that its time for a change. Just look how the Ibt has all of a sudden came out of the woodwork to be our buddies. Where were they when we needed them? Does'nt that strike you as a little odd? I guess i don't have a crystal ball like you. I don't know the future but i sure do know the past and i don't like it! The statement about the truck drivers was out of line? If the truth hurts you than i am sorry. It's a cold cruel world out there. No elitest here just trying to promote our profession and get the respect that we deserve. It's not about them. It's about us!!!

planedoctor · Joined: Oct 08, 2002 Posts: 306

I would have to agree with the fact that the IBT has in the last few months been showing activity that they haven't in the past. Mind you it's positive, but are they just tugging on the coat tails of SWA, CAL, and UPS as they leave?

_________________

737 · Joined: Nov 20, 2002 Posts: 43 Location: USA

The truth cfm-7 is that your attitude towards other union members, skilled or unskilled, does not reflect the likes of a proffessional. History has also taught me well to respect the cause for the people who laid the groundwork for unionism in this country. And, it's not about "me" if I am to help advance the cause for all union members. And, that was my entire point that you missed completely with regards to truck drivers, which you brought up in your original post.

Now, using your own example of an attorney not performing their fiduciary responsibilities, their services would indeed be in jeopardy. However, if as you stated

cfm-7 · Joined: Dec 12, 2002 Posts: 7 Location: USA

We have been held down long enough by the industrial unionism. I'm well aware of its history. Good and bad! You are correct. It's not about "me" it's about us! All acft mechanics. As I stated before you guys love twisting words around. If it wasn't for unions in the past we wouldn't be where we are today. There is no denying that but times change as well as needs change. There is no way in the world you can tell me all a&p mechanics wouldn't be better off in one union.................PERIOD! It also didn't take me very long after I became a Swa employee to figure out the Ibt was corrupt. It's all over the newspapers and tv. I have done research and know how they operate. Just look at www.swamechanic.com and how he has been threatened because his views don't match theirs. If that's the kind of people you want to be associated with that's your business but I'll take the more professional route! Demolishing the whole building thing is cute but hardly fits the Ibt. Corruption has been fought for years at all levels and a few years back the Tdu was started and they have had no success whatsoever. Sometimes when your house becomes so infested you have to knock it down!

737 · Joined: Nov 20, 2002 Posts: 43 Location: USA

I'll be happy to agree to disagree. And, as I stated the way of the future will soon become known. Who are you going to blame if things don't go your way?

cfm-7 · Joined: Dec 12, 2002 Posts: 7 Location: USA

If the majority comes out Ibt,then so be it. We will have our hands full keeping them in line as in the past. If Amfa wins we will have our hands full but in a different way. We will have a lot more local control and that weight falls on all of our shoulders. If everyone gives it their best and Amfa doesn't work out,then i will shoulder the blame along with everone else but at the same time they deserve a fair shake. We don't need Ibt loyalists trying to throw a wrench in to the works everytime we turn around. I as an Amfa supporter am prepared to support the Ibt if they win and try to make it better for all of us. It's not about BLAME! It's about mechanics!

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